music production

Tommy · 04-11-2008, 01:05 AM

since we have slot of talented producers on this site, I have a general question that I hear quite often. Alot of people have messed around with programs like reason or fruity loops and create pretty catchy loops. The big problem is most people don't know the next step. Is it to learn re-editing using a program like ableton or jumping into a program such as logic or protools. What are the key elements to put your self on an efficient path???

MidnightSociety · 04-11-2008, 02:22 PM

I think the most problems people are having with production is the arranging of the track. People come up with awesome sounds and grooves, but don't don't have a concept of putting together an actual piece of music that flows from beginning to end. They should learn how to structure an intro, middle, breakdowns, build-ups and outros. And how to stretch these process out to make a song that's DJ friendly and flows for 6-8 minutes. Or in my case, 12. Hee hee hee!

We already know what we like because we purchase the music and dance to it. These are the best tools to study and use as examples, for it has a flow that you can mentally connect to. Listen to several records that have a similar sound and flow. After a while, you'll notice a production pattern that you can grasp on. Once you get these basic mechanics down, then it's easy to learn a piece of software in order to create it. Some are easier to grasp than others, such as Ableton Live, Fruity Loops, Acid Pro & Reason. People who are just starting out should look into these programs first before going to the level of ProTools or Logic. The learning curve is not as high and it's geared to produce decent results quickly.

Above all, let your ears get proper rest because they do get saturated after a while, and allow others to listen to your work. As producers, we tend to be our worst critics. A fresh set of ears from an honest friend or peer can give you the insight you're looking for.

rissa · 04-11-2008, 03:17 PM

well said ...and if u want to get ripped a new one come to me LOL

JK

Excidium · 04-11-2008, 03:36 PM

Well said MS!

I had this problem when I first started out, I was using the very earliest version of Reason and I would arrange 'sketches' on Acid after programming some sounds. But what prevented me from moving past this phase was the fact that what I was hearing wasn't exactly what I wanted, sonically. Classes at the cutting room really opened my mind with production in regards to this and the foundations of production in general, like pro tools, hardware processors, patchbay and signal flow..etc. Also over the years I've read a lot about techniques, and how to use certain Vsts and plugins cause some of those are a program in itself like, Reaktor for instance or even Kontakt...etc. and how you can experiment with a sound by merely tweaking the signal chain and really getting what you hear in your head, out. It all helps really. Plus it allows you later to be spontaneous and let the music come out naturally, the tools really help.

I think approaching this with how you yourself like to learn things is the best way, whether its classes, or just manuals and learn as you go, or any way possible like myself, which no matter what takes time and patience, have fun with it though, remember you wanna capture a vibe in the process of making a track, don't get frustrated, concentrate on what you know and how to just evolve from that point on while smiling as you do it

MidnightSociety · 04-12-2008, 10:43 AM

I remember trying to go to a music school for production when I tried to get into it back in the mid 90s. Most people were there to do Rock or Hip-Hop, so most of the MIDI labs were wide open for those who wanted to learn how to work Studio Vision and we also had access to gear like the Korg X5, The K2000 sound module & sampler, and the JD800 keyboard. I did that for a while until I couldn't afford the classes anymore. And it wasn't until Sonic Foundry & Propellerheads made Acid Pro and Reason a few years later that I realized I could actually start making music at home without the need of expensive gear. Being able to do things on a budget really forced me to become resourceful and learn how to manually do the types of FX and tricks that most pros were using high-end VSTs for. Rick Corbo and I would jokingly call these things our "GhettoFX". It was a poor man's way of producing, but in the process it trained our ears to focus more on counts and how to properly arrange notes & sounds in an arrangement window. These days, I still find myself resorting to these tricks here and there. Since we're using audio and not a plug-in, it doesn't take up a lot of processing power on the computer and it's guaranteed to sound the same way every time you use it unless you add an extra effect or envelope to it. That leaves the machine ready for more tracks, or for that one or two really cool AUs or VSTs that do need the processing power.

Computer Music & Future Music are two of the best magazines out there for tips & tricks regarding today's hottest home studio tools. They're full of tutorials, gear & software reviews, interviews with various producers as well as a DVD full of software & royalty free samples. A regular subscription is expensive since they're imports. I don't buy them all, but when I find one issue that I do like it's well worth the $16 purchase... sometimes just for the few thousand themed audio samples.

Excidium · 04-12-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightSociety

I remember trying to go to a music school for production when I tried to get into it back in the mid 90s. Most people were there to do Rock or Hip-Hop, so most of the MIDI labs were wide open for those who wanted to learn how to work Studio Vision and we also had access to gear like the Korg X5, The K2000 sound module & sampler, and the JD800 keyboard. I did that for a while until I couldn't afford the classes anymore. And it wasn't until Sonic Foundry & Propellerheads made Acid Pro and Reason a few years later that I realized I could actually start making music at home without the need of expensive gear. Being able to do things on a budget really forced me to become resourceful and learn how to manually do the types of FX and tricks that most pros were using high-end VSTs for. Rick Corbo and I would jokingly call these things our "GhettoFX". It was a poor man's way of producing, but in the process it trained our ears to focus more on counts and how to properly arrange notes & sounds in an arrangement window. These days, I still find myself resorting to these tricks here and there. Since we're using audio and not a plug-in, it doesn't take up a lot of processing power on the computer and it's guaranteed to sound the same way every time you use it unless you add an extra effect or envelope to it. That leaves the machine ready for more tracks, or for that one or two really cool AUs or VSTs that do need the processing power.
.

Haha, man I went through that myself, goodness, Rissa can tell you some of the horror stories we had with projects and the serious lack of processing power we had back then to compensate my ummm addiction for taking things a little further in the signal chain, lol.

skooby · 04-15-2008, 01:52 PM

I wish I had more time to learn more. I'm good with Reason but that is about it and unfortunately I don't have time to teach myself anymore.

And yea, not having good equipment is a serious drawback.

How did you guys go about learning? I mean you didn't just go out and buy a 5 grand Behringer board and start mixing tracks did you?

rissa · 04-15-2008, 02:26 PM

We started out just like everyone else...fucking around with basic programs like reason....then carlos took some classes ...read a ton of books ...spent alot of time on the actual program and continue to use the books as reference and now hes a protools whiz LOL ...and then i learn from watching him

MidnightSociety · 04-15-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skooby

How did you guys go about learning? I mean you didn't just go out and buy a 5 grand Behringer board and start mixing tracks did you?

A lot of it is just trial and error. Some of the best tracks out there were created on an accidental tweak of a knob. Also, reading a bunch of different articles and books on music production help. I already listed Computer Music & Future Music magazines. I managed to get a lot of ideas for mastering and mixing from these magazines. You wind up learning how to do advanced tricks with the gear you have access to. The more you stick to it, the better you become to developing your own sound.

Tommy · 04-15-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skooby

I wish I had more time to learn more. I'm good with Reason but that is about it and unfortunately I don't have time to teach myself anymore.

And yea, not having good equipment is a serious drawback.

How did you guys go about learning? I mean you didn't just go out and buy a 5 grand Behringer board and start mixing tracks did you?

skooby brings up a good point, the creation of this thread is how to get a professional sound, or for better worlds closer to a professional sound.

We've all done it before - took a record wrote down on paper the changes in the bars, duplicating and making a song is pretty easy.

The true art is getting a creation to sound like a real song... Mastered whatever you call it, etc...

The hardest part is getting it to sound professional.

04-11-2008, 01:05 AM	#1 (permalink)
Tommy Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New York Posts: 534	music production since we have slot of talented producers on this site, I have a general question that I hear quite often. Alot of people have messed around with programs like reason or fruity loops and create pretty catchy loops. The big problem is most people don't know the next step. Is it to learn re-editing using a program like ableton or jumping into a program such as logic or protools. What are the key elements to put your self on an efficient path???

04-11-2008, 02:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
MidnightSociety Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: New York Posts: 215	I think the most problems people are having with production is the arranging of the track. People come up with awesome sounds and grooves, but don't don't have a concept of putting together an actual piece of music that flows from beginning to end. They should learn how to structure an intro, middle, breakdowns, build-ups and outros. And how to stretch these process out to make a song that's DJ friendly and flows for 6-8 minutes. Or in my case, 12. Hee hee hee! We already know what we like because we purchase the music and dance to it. These are the best tools to study and use as examples, for it has a flow that you can mentally connect to. Listen to several records that have a similar sound and flow. After a while, you'll notice a production pattern that you can grasp on. Once you get these basic mechanics down, then it's easy to learn a piece of software in order to create it. Some are easier to grasp than others, such as Ableton Live, Fruity Loops, Acid Pro & Reason. People who are just starting out should look into these programs first before going to the level of ProTools or Logic. The learning curve is not as high and it's geared to produce decent results quickly. Above all, let your ears get proper rest because they do get saturated after a while, and allow others to listen to your work. As producers, we tend to be our worst critics. A fresh set of ears from an honest friend or peer can give you the insight you're looking for. __________________ Curtis L. Atchison Midnight Society / SoundGroove Records Internet - http://www.midnight-society.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/midnightsocietynewyork

04-11-2008, 03:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
rissa Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 338	well said ...and if u want to get ripped a new one come to me LOL JK __________________ Nightchildrecords.com NightChild on Myspace NightChild on Beatport 10/01/09 ..:Rissidium@Deep See(Sapphire Lounge) with Lola, EMan& Spider 10/16/09..:Rissidium@ Rebel w/Stimulus Response Crew

04-11-2008, 03:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
Excidium Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 109	Well said MS! I had this problem when I first started out, I was using the very earliest version of Reason and I would arrange 'sketches' on Acid after programming some sounds. But what prevented me from moving past this phase was the fact that what I was hearing wasn't exactly what I wanted, sonically. Classes at the cutting room really opened my mind with production in regards to this and the foundations of production in general, like pro tools, hardware processors, patchbay and signal flow..etc. Also over the years I've read a lot about techniques, and how to use certain Vsts and plugins cause some of those are a program in itself like, Reaktor for instance or even Kontakt...etc. and how you can experiment with a sound by merely tweaking the signal chain and really getting what you hear in your head, out. It all helps really. Plus it allows you later to be spontaneous and let the music come out naturally, the tools really help. I think approaching this with how you yourself like to learn things is the best way, whether its classes, or just manuals and learn as you go, or any way possible like myself, which no matter what takes time and patience, have fun with it though, remember you wanna capture a vibe in the process of making a track, don't get frustrated, concentrate on what you know and how to just evolve from that point on while smiling as you do it Last edited by Excidium; 04-11-2008 at 03:40 PM.

04-12-2008, 10:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
MidnightSociety Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: New York Posts: 215	I remember trying to go to a music school for production when I tried to get into it back in the mid 90s. Most people were there to do Rock or Hip-Hop, so most of the MIDI labs were wide open for those who wanted to learn how to work Studio Vision and we also had access to gear like the Korg X5, The K2000 sound module & sampler, and the JD800 keyboard. I did that for a while until I couldn't afford the classes anymore. And it wasn't until Sonic Foundry & Propellerheads made Acid Pro and Reason a few years later that I realized I could actually start making music at home without the need of expensive gear. Being able to do things on a budget really forced me to become resourceful and learn how to manually do the types of FX and tricks that most pros were using high-end VSTs for. Rick Corbo and I would jokingly call these things our "GhettoFX". It was a poor man's way of producing, but in the process it trained our ears to focus more on counts and how to properly arrange notes & sounds in an arrangement window. These days, I still find myself resorting to these tricks here and there. Since we're using audio and not a plug-in, it doesn't take up a lot of processing power on the computer and it's guaranteed to sound the same way every time you use it unless you add an extra effect or envelope to it. That leaves the machine ready for more tracks, or for that one or two really cool AUs or VSTs that do need the processing power. Computer Music & Future Music are two of the best magazines out there for tips & tricks regarding today's hottest home studio tools. They're full of tutorials, gear & software reviews, interviews with various producers as well as a DVD full of software & royalty free samples. A regular subscription is expensive since they're imports. I don't buy them all, but when I find one issue that I do like it's well worth the $16 purchase... sometimes just for the few thousand themed audio samples. __________________ Curtis L. Atchison Midnight Society / SoundGroove Records Internet - http://www.midnight-society.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/midnightsocietynewyork Last edited by MidnightSociety; 04-12-2008 at 10:45 AM.

04-15-2008, 01:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
skooby Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Long Island Posts: 1,226	I wish I had more time to learn more. I'm good with Reason but that is about it and unfortunately I don't have time to teach myself anymore. And yea, not having good equipment is a serious drawback. How did you guys go about learning? I mean you didn't just go out and buy a 5 grand Behringer board and start mixing tracks did you?

04-15-2008, 02:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
rissa Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 338	We started out just like everyone else...fucking around with basic programs like reason....then carlos took some classes ...read a ton of books ...spent alot of time on the actual program and continue to use the books as reference and now hes a protools whiz LOL ...and then i learn from watching him __________________ Nightchildrecords.com NightChild on Myspace NightChild on Beatport 10/01/09 ..:Rissidium@Deep See(Sapphire Lounge) with Lola, EMan& Spider 10/16/09..:Rissidium@ Rebel w/Stimulus Response Crew

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